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Jim's Guide to....

by The Jimster

The Counter Style

Mar 05, 2014 9:18 AM

The Counter Style

The counter style is one of the most under utilized styles in the game and yet one of the most effctive styles when used correctly in the proper situation. To begin let's look at what the guide tells us about the counter style.

In this style, a fast fighter waits for his opponent to attack and then counter-punches. If the fighter has a higher SPD than his opponent, then 25% of his SPD advantage is added to his AGL (for "striking first") and 25% is subtracted from his opponent's AGL -- to a maximum of 50% of the opponent's AGL.
For example, suppose that fighter A has SPD 13 and AGL 10, while fighter B has SPD 10 and AGL 11. Fighter A therefore has a 3 point SPD advantage. If fighter A counter-punches, his AGL is increased by 3/4 = 0.75 points to 10.75 while his opponent's AGL is decreased by 0.75 to 10.25. However, if counter-punching is used against an opponent with a higher SPD, then counter-punching backfires [he hits you first] and the fighter's AGL is decreased by an amount equal to half his SPD disadvantage. In the example above, if fighter B counter-punches, then his AGL is reduced by 1.5 to 9.5.
In addition, when a fighter counter-punches his AGG is reduced below that of his opponent (but never below 1). The lost energy points are used for resting, just as with the clinching style. So, for example, if a counter-puncher uses an AGG of 6 and his opponent uses an AGG of 5, the counter-puncher's AGG is reduced to 4, and the two missing energy points are used for resting. If a counter-puncher's opponent uses feinting or clinching, then the counter-puncher's AGG reduction takes place after his opponent's AGG reduction. If both fighters counter-punch, then each fighter has his AGG reduced by 1 point.
What was just explained to us from the guide is we can use the counter style to increase our defense from the speed advantage while at the same time reduce our opp's defense. How can you ask is this style not being used? Well the problem is with the loss of aggression to fall 1 below your opp's agg. If your opp suspects you will use the counter style there is a way to manipulate the style to work against you. If you were to use a 4/8/8 (counter) and your opp uses a 3/12/5 (clinch), you are now using a 1/8/8 (counter) vs a 2/12/5 (clinch). Your opp is dealing a lot of damage and probably winning the round since your punches thrown max at 8 while his max at 16. This drawback is a primary reason why many managers veer away from using this style.
So when should you use this style and how?
The best time this style is used is in a slugger vs slugger matchup, generally when your opp can use the chase style to get a KO or give cuts. Don't know anything about the chase style? I suggest you go to how a round is resolved under the game guide and get a quick understanding before going forward.
Ok, say you sparred against your opp and notice that a 4h/8/8 (chase) gives him a 1st rd - 4th rd KO. Obviously his agility is a few points higher than yours and we have a problem, however you notice you're landing as many or (hopefully) more punches than him. We have our saving grace the counter style. Did you read about the chase style? NO!?!, well heres a quick lesson, you just lost 10% of your agility and your opp is sustaining an additional loss of .25 endurance points for each point of agg. With the counter stlye you are putting back .25 of each point of speed advantage you have back into your agility, while taking the same from your opp. If you have a 4 point advantage in speed you probably just evened the playing field or tipped it to your favor in terms of agility.
This last part needs some explaining. In general as a slugger your agility will range from 9 - 20 as you move up the ratings. this means an opps chase will cause you to lose .9-2 points of agility. When you applied the counter style with a 4 point spd advantage you put 1 point of agility back into your guy and took 1 point of agility from your opp. Depending on where your agility is you either have a 1.10 agility advantage or the agility is even. Read that a couple more times, I had to and I'm the one writing this.
Now we have possibly turned this situation into our advantage, however your opp may realize that, even bank on you doing it. This is where you need to be careful with the counter drawback. The safe bet is to use a 3h/7/10 (counter). If your opp uses a style that brings your agg down to 1 you are getting the ability to rest while still doing adequate damage and protection. Another solution I use at times is just put my agg to 1 and nullify the drawback using a 1h/12/7 (counter) or a 2h/10/8 (counter). What works best takes time sparring your opp and getting some experience using the style.

Yep thats right there are oppurtunities for dancers to use this style also.
To begin we have the classic dancer vs slugger scenario. Your dancer is winning the fight and we're getting to desperation time for the slugger. You know the Allout is coming, and for whatever reason you feel a 4h/8/8 (ring) will result in your demise (trust me this situation will happen). You now turn to your trusty 4h/8/8 (chase) grinning at your chance for glory. However as we should know by now the chase style only removes 10% of your opp's agl and results in a hefty .25 per agg point penalty. This is where the counter comes into play. A 3h/9/8 (counter) could prove to be the better way to go. Let's break it down and compare the two.

This is a similar situation as above from the slugger vs slugger matchup. By using chase you are looking at a potential .9-2 points of agility being removed from your opp. In an allout situation this can certainly still be all you need for the KO. However your fighter is still taking the blunt of damage your opp is dishing out. In essence you have won this battle, but possibly lost the war. What I mean is great you won the fight, crap gotta retire your fighter because he just took a ton of IP's from that ass whoopin.
Using the counter with a 4 point spd advantage you gain 1 point of agility, and take 1 point of his aglity away. Here we have potentially reduced his defense enough to gain the KO, while at the same time offering the fighter an increase to his defense that the chase previously didn't offer. We've also gained some insurance here in case your opp didn't allout. Using chase may have left you vunerable for several rounds of taking increased damage along with the increase in endurance lost. The counter kept the damage to a minimum while also letting you rest if your opp wants to rest before letting loose.

The counter also has some oppurtunity in a Dancer vs Dancer situation. You have a taller, faster fighter than your opp. However he is more agile than a hawk swooping down from the skies and pouncing on his prey. This is where using an 8/4/8 (counter) instead of a 9/1/10 (feint) or 9/1/10 (outside) could come in handy. I haven't tried this yet since I don't use dancers very often, but the potential kind of struck me. If the height is only 2-4 points more than your opp you may not get as much of a benefit from using outside as you would using counter. The reason being is that the additional speed you get from your height is applied to your speed before calculating the counter equation. Meaning if your spd advantage is 4 and your height adv is 4 you actually have a 6 point spd advantage over your opp. 6/4 = 1.5 boost to your agl and taken from your opp. This results in more damage being dealt since you are reducing your opps defense, as opposed to the feint where you are only increasing your speed. Like I said I haven't tried this yet, and if anyone has some success with it please share with me. I'm a big fan of the counter and will try more dancers if this works.
When using the counter stlye you need to be aware of your injuries during the fight. Most of the inuries sustained after a level 1 will first start to take away from your speed, and > level 2 will start to take away more speed and begin to affect your agility.
A simple solution is to add some cuts statements. My personal preference is if (mycuts > hiscuts +1) or mycuts > 3 then 4/8/8. The reason for the or statement is because of how this particular mycuts statement works. The first part says I have 1 additional injury compared to my opp which could mean a level 2 swelling or cut and my speed advantage is in jeopardy. The second part says I may have a level 3 swelling or cut and both my speed and agl or at risk. This is a time to pull out of the counter style and start using something else.
A TKO or KO will usually occur before this but also watch your endurance. If your opp gains enough of a end advantage in the fight your speed used for calculating the round could actually be lower than your opp's speed resulting in a penalty to your agl rather than gaining a bonus. A statement I have used is if end > {starting end}*.68 then 3h/7/10 (counter). At this point your opp may have rested, or has done something you didn't expect and your counter plan can begin to work against you. You may even have begun to win the endurance battle yourself and would benefit by using something other than the counter style.

Jims Tools

Feb 27, 2014 7:47 PM

Jims Tools

This is the first in a series of Guides I will be writing to try and give back to the game the knowledge I have accumulated over the years from other managers writing such guides. In this one I will be discussing the tools I have available on my google drive which you can only access from links on my manager page The Jimster.

Top up guide

This is a straight forward list of what the AP's are for each rating if a fighter has been Topped up at that rating. At the time of this writing the top up feature has been disabled from the game. The guide however is still a great tool to quickly guess what a fighters total AP's can be for any giving rating which I find useful when scouting. You can also use the +/- column to see what the normal AP is for each rating for fighter you believe not to be topped. Just subtract the +/- from the topped up column and that will give you that rating's avg AP.

Str-Agl Calculator

For those who are new to the game Str-Agl is a quick determination of what style fighter your opponent is. By subtracting Agility from Strength you can see if a fighter is a slugger, balanced, or dancer. If Str-Agl is > 10 he is a slugger, if -5 he is balanced, < -5 and he is a dancer. This is a general rule on Str-Agl, but as you become more experienced in the game you will start to argue with what I just said ;) .

Okay I am not going to get into full detail on how these numbers are derived. All you need to know is to enter a fighters height and weight. The calculator will do the rest. You will notice the Str-Agl is listed by build. One of the values need to determine Str-Agl is a fighters build, but this is not given to you. So you'll need to guess the correct build to figure out the fighter, or we can move on to the next tool.

Fight Calculator

This is my crown Jewel and biggest reason I have turned around my lack luster performance. To begin this calculator can be used to scout your opp. Bring your opp into practice and select your fighter. Change the round to 1 and determine the toughness of your opp by using if end < 200 then 1/1/10 (ring). If your opponent uses the ring then lower the number, If he just comes out fighting raise the number. When you find his end divide the number by 10 and you get his toughness. Now enter the info of your fighter into the calculator and enter the height, weight and toughness of your opp. Make sure the DMG Mod is set to 1 and the correct division is selected. Now in the calculator change the fight plan for both fighters to 4/4/8 and select Styles in style. Back on the practice screen have both fighters run the 4/4/8 fp versus each other for the 1 round and scroll to the bottom of the screen. Now using the calculator change the speed of your opp until the His Punch Land is within .5 of what the practice screen shows you. Now change the opp Agility till the My Punch land is within .5 of the punches your fighter landed. Now we need to find the str which involves using multiple tools. First look at the str-agl tool and take a guess what his str-agl is. For this example lets say his str-agl is a +5. Add the 5 to the agl and put the number in as str. Now compare the damage received on the practice screen to the His Damage Dealt on the calculator. Are they within .5 of each other? If not try a different build for the Str-Agl. If you're off by 1 you may be in the ballpark. Remember that the resolver has a randomizer built in that changes abilities up to +/- 1 point. Now bring up the Top up guide and compare the Total AP's for your opp from the calculator to the AP's for that rating. It should be close, if you are way off then make sure you were comparing the correct punch landed when determing speed and agility. You will need to run the fighters against each other several times before you begin to get the numbers accurate. The best way to get a feel for how far off the calculator can be is using your own fighters at first for scouting and get a feel for how to make adjustsments to the str, spd, and agl. I can usually put myself within +/- 2 of any ability. That can be huge difference at times, but if you could get the exact numbers of your opponent what fun would the game be.
Okay so you scouted your opp what else can this calculator do? Well the version I am using for this guide is Fight Calculator ver 3. For those who have been using this calculator already you will notice a few new features. I have added cut probability and KD/KO columns. You can now see if the damage being delivered is enough to start giving cuts or get that quick KO you need. For you dancers you can find out how low your defense can go before a 5h/10/5 (allout) puts you out cold. The other feature is a damage modifier. Currently it's only good for changing to a 1.1 and simulate both fighters using the dirty (!) modifier. In the future I want to use it to try and simulate when the damage scoring factor is different for tournaments.
Okay so you just read all that but you never used my calculator before, actually your a little confused reading all of that. Well basically you can use this as you would sparring, however you can see more information at once. You can hone and finesse your fp's and possibly find solutions to problems you didn't perceive. Bottom line this is something I belive everyone will use differently, but a tool I hope helps everyone take their game to a whole new level.

Fighter Creation Tool

You can easily use the Create a fighter to do most of what this calculator does, but I'm a bit of an excel geek and wanted to make something new. I primarily use this calculator to come up with new ideas for a fighter and try to determine what course their career will go on. Usually I start backwards with what I want my rating 20 fighter to look like, rating 10, and then design a fighter that can try and achieve those goals at a rating 0. The one difference between using this calculator and the create a fighter screen is being able to see the percentages being used for each ability. There has been multiple times where I have gotten to a point with a fighter and couldn't decide which ability I definately wanted to train next. Using this tool has helped by showing how much importance I was giving any one ability.